"Cé hé sin" (michael-m-mouse)
09/23/2015 at 09:47 • Filed to: NOx
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"Cé hé sin" (michael-m-mouse)
09/23/2015 at 09:47 • Filed to: NOx | 1
| 11 |
We’ve heard an awful lot at great length about NOx and the VW group in the past few days.
However, the story didn’t start then. In 2014 a body called the ICCT produced a report about comparisons between real world and test CO2 and NOx emissions for light duty diesel engines. As we’ve heard, VW models didn’t do at all well.
But that’s not the whole story. Look at this graph, taken from the report which is !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . The report doesn’t name the makers or the vehicles involved but knowing that three of the tests are by WVU and that they tested two VWs and a BMW we can work out that A, B and C are BMWs and that D, E, F, G and H are VAG products. We can see that the two highest readings are for vehicles L and H . H is therefore a VW product putting out a lot of NOx.
So, what’s L, which is the worst performer? The report describes it as a “luxury sedan”. This story has a lot further to go!
pip bip - choose Corrour
> Cé hé sin
09/23/2015 at 09:55 |
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VW Phaeton perhaps?
Skoda Superb?
Porsche Panamera?
Audi A8?
can’t wait to find out more!
jariten1781
> Cé hé sin
09/23/2015 at 10:49 |
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What a junk report...anonymous data sources on single trips? Hilarious these bumblers kicked this off.
Santiago of Escuderia Boricua
> Cé hé sin
09/23/2015 at 11:27 |
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Wouldn’t that be the A3 that’s also part of the dieselgate?
DrJohannVegas
> jariten1781
09/23/2015 at 11:32 |
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The single-trip data is only for C, J, K, L, M, and N. The anonymous sources were multi-trip reports (on A, D, E, G, I, and O). The remaining data came from a WVU study.
It’s not perfect, for sure. But, although their research design has limitations, they are clear about how they collected the data (for the most part), which at least suggests they want to be open about the process.
I’m a bit more concerned about the comparability of the data from the different sources. “Real world” always sets off the “uncontrolled conditions” alarm bells for me.
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jariten1781
> DrJohannVegas
09/23/2015 at 11:51 |
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Good catch, I was just skimming.
Regardless, this is interesting data and points to ‘more study needed’. If one of my guys came to me with this I’d say ‘cool, file it with the customer. If they want more, share it around with colleagues, maybe give a call to some of our consulting professors/partner firms and we can get a real data set’. I would never publish it as a public report with conclusions and recommendations...it’s not even close to rigorous enough for that.
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DrJohannVegas
> jariten1781
09/23/2015 at 12:03 |
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Fair points. In academic/non-profit settings, sometimes you hit a real resource constraint when it comes to collecting data. Generating new data costs money, so sometimes you publish what you have so far in an effort to raise interest for further study. I can assure you that raising research funds for something which has little exposure is very difficult.
Also, you’d be surprised how much data which one would expect to be easily available simply doesn’t exist. I’ve spent most of the past 10 years going through a pattern of thinking, “oh, this should be straightforward, someone has to have collected data,” then finding out (after lots of searching) that the best work in the field uses limited data or some alternative research strategy.
One final note: the single-trip observations did come from a private research firm. In my experiences outside the ivory tower, there are research (and research presentation) issues which are as bad as the ones leveled at some academic research. No project, research design, or report is perfect. I appreciate the transparency in this report, though, because it lets the reader make honest assessments about more of the process. Science is the method, not the outcome.
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Cé hé sin
> Santiago of Escuderia Boricua
09/23/2015 at 12:17 |
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It might, it depends on whether they include Audi as part of the VW group or not.
I wouldn’t call an A3 a “luxury sedan” though.
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Cé hé sin
> pip bip - choose Corrour
09/23/2015 at 12:19 |
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Not a Phaeton - it’s a VW! As for the others, it depends on whether they include Skoda etc with VW as one maker or not.
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jariten1781
> DrJohannVegas
09/23/2015 at 12:47 |
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In my experiences outside the ivory tower, there are research (and research presentation) issues which are as bad as the ones leveled at some academic research.
I hope I didn’t imply that academic research was inherently flawed or inferior. Didn’t intend to. I’ve certainly seen dreck from all sides.
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DrJohannVegas
> jariten1781
09/23/2015 at 12:53 |
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Oh, no! I didn’t take it that way at all. Just saying that...well...everybody’s shit’s stinky. Especially mine. Oh gods, does mine stink.
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jariten1781
> DrJohannVegas
09/23/2015 at 12:59 |
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There’s a solution for that: